I did not hear of these b4 your post. Read two web sites and there was claims of no chemical but then went on to list chemicals in the patch. Got a couple of flags on that , more research needed. They will probably help , are ther better than icey hot ? Or acupuncture? Anyway they must help. Just don’t think it’s a all in one fix. But this is from an engineer who needs all of t the facts. Sounds like a good tool at minimum. Thanks

A doctor lost his wife to suicide,her pain journey was more than she could take.So doctor started wondering.Said his wife was on Oxycodon and once it started the pain spread throughout her body.So he started to study about it.Claims he found an ancient Chinese remedy for pain.He did his study and figured out the recipe. It was all natural herbs and plant ground into a paste.Put paste in cone shape at point of pain and light it,as it burnt it draws out the pain.Problem was you couldn't keep this on body long,because it stained the skin bad.So her invented a patch with those ingredients. I realize this is from facebook,and you can't believe much seen on there lol .End of video it said order on Luminas.com..i looked it up,and there is Luminas patches for sale.

I've always been told by massager to drink lots of water to flush out the toxins,they really stress that

I don't get any relief from the regular IceyHot patches but the patches that have Lidocaine in them do help me. Anyone with heart problems should not use Lidocaine. I have not heard of Luminas Patches.
I have also had dry needling that used to help for a few days after treatment but lately it feels better for about an hour , then the pain returns.
I hope this info gives you more resources to at least check out.

Massage helped me for about an hour after a half hour session So the next time I did the hour long session.Again I felt great for about a half hour maybe one hour.Once at a big mall I saw a Chinese store where you sat on a chair,leaned forward on back of chair.Then they did acupressure point massage.Cost 40 $ but I felt great for a few days